Marvin Shilmer

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Posts by Marvin Shilmer

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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  1)You talk a lot. I am not persuaded.

  I have more to say in response to that, too.

  1. I don't care if you are persuaded, or not.

  Questions?
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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  2) What is your specific point(s) about WT and their position on BT

  I do have more to say in response to that very broad question.

  1. Watchtower's position on blood transfusion is irrational.

  2. Watchtower's position on blood transfusion is dishonest.

  3. Watchtower's position on blood transfusion has led to tens of thousands of premature deaths.

  Questions?
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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  1)You talk a lot. I am not persuaded. What is your specific point about this document.
  2) What is your specific point(s) about WT and their position on BT

  My specific point is as my blog article states:

  "Completing this document requires no knowledge that 1) a treating physician has record of good cooperation with Jehovah’s Witness patients, 2) a past record of performing a particular “bloodless” procedure along with 3) sentiment that the same procedure will be “no problem” this time. This is a change from Watchtower's published policy dating to 1992.[2]

  "The Letter of Understanding document is a written and signed record that parents of a Witness child have been informed their child will be given the best medical treatment available, including transfusion of blood products forbidden under Watchtower doctrine if treating physicians deem it necessary."

  Is there something about that you don't understand?

  Fact: The posted "Letter of Understanding" is not a WT agreement consenting BT. I have shown that.

  I've not asserted that. So what is your point saying this to me?
  
  

  Fact: As it is written, the LOU when executed by JW is not an authorization for hospital to administer BT. I have shown that.

  I've not asserted that. So what is your point saying this to me?

  A further point of my blog article addressing the letter of understanding is this:

  "Every parent among Jehovah's Witnesses worried about how local Watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this Letter of Understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them. Then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the child's best interests."

  Is there anything about that you don't understand?
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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  What are you saying?

  Fisherman,

  Saying?

  You made an assertion of defender of truth. Of defender of truth you asserted "you advertize that the WT is secretly consenting to blood transfusions".

  The result is defender of truth asked "Where did I say that the Watchtower is consenting to anyone having blood transfusions?"

  I'd say defender of truth is saying, please prove your assertion.
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  59

  Kendrick " Letter of Introduction " from Elders regarding Candace Conti Case

  by flipper in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  as many of us saw in the pbs news hour program and the abc news nightline program the elders from one congregation failed to communicate properly to the elders in another congregation concerning the child molester jonathan kendrick when he moved to a new congregation.

  i have parts of this " introduction letter " from the fremont congregation to the oakley congregation elders so you can read it for yourself and decide how irresponsible these wt appointed elders were.

  dated 1/16/98 it opens : .

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  Marvin Shilmer

  That Kendrick introduction letter is hard to read. It basically set the guy up in business for his next victim!

  I also know that Watchtower has in the past re-appointed men as elders that it knew had a history of sexually molesting a child.

  It is a cult.
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  11

  What Exactly Is The JW View of Physical Discipline, Corporal Punishment?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe that since it is not politically correct to spank your child, the watchtower doesn't push parents anymore in that direction.. years ago, elders would sit a parent down and tell them that they needed to discipline their kids and if needed, give them a spanking, since the bible says, they won't die if you give them a beating.. what is the watchtower's view on this subject now?.

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Historical footage: Watchtower and the Woodshed
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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  I was reading about the case you mentioned above from the newspaper article (I googled it) and also from your blog. In your blog comments I noticed a commenter referred to an elders only form S-55-E dating from 9/2010.
  Do you happen to know where I could read that letter or what the gist of it is

  You can see the whole S-55-E document HERE.

  I wrote a short blog article about this document titled “No Copies Should Be Made”

  Edited to add: For some reason the link I keep trying to embed to the S-55-E document reverts to plain text after a few moments. Don't know why, but after multiple attempts I've given up. If you check my blog article linked above--which link does remain live for some reason--you'll find where the document is linked for viewing.
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  34

  Pregnant women refuses blood

  by Giordano in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-refusal-of-blood-transfusion-mother-and-baby-die#more-4001.

  a 28-year-old woman and her unborn child have died because of the womans decision not to accept a lifesaving blood transfusion.. doctors at the royal hospital for women and prince of wales hospital in randwick, sydney, australia, have described the harrowing effect on hospital staff of two otherwise avoidable deaths.. the woman, a jehovahs witness, was seven months into her pregnancy when it was discovered she had leukaemia.. amy corderoy, health editor, reporting in the sydney morning herald states,.

  more than 80% of pregnant women suffering from the cancer, called acute promyelocytic leukaemia, will go into remission with proper treatment, and the outlook for their babies is good.. .

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  Marvin Shilmer

  It is estimated that approximately 1000 Jehovah’s Witnesses die annually worldwide and as many as 100,000 may have died by abstaining from blood transfusions since the blood ban was introduced in 1945.

  I don't know the source of Dr. Welsh's statement above, but the figure of 1,000 annual deaths and the figure 100,000 deaths since 1945 is easily the case based on hard data compiled by Drs Beliaev, Marshall, Gordon, Smith and Windsor in their article Clinical benefits and cost-effectiveness of allogeneic red-blood-cell transfusion in severe symptomatic anaemia published in Vox Sanguinis, (2012; 103, 18–24). I've researched and written on this subject and a estimate using that hard data based on very conservative assumptions is that since 1961 at least 50,000 of Jehovah's Witnesses have died due to Watchtower's blood doctrine.
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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  So back on topic, the Society is trying to make some wiggle room for itself.

  I think the whole reason for the change demonstrated in the letter of understanding agreement is the result of one thing: failure to have its way regarding JW minors (which is to let them die rather than attempt prevention of premature death by transfusion of blood) and lots of very negative media and legislative attention garnered for trying to have its way regarding JW minors and blood transfusion.

  To my knowledge the first agreement of this sort reached involved the case cited in my blog article and recorded in Globe and Mail, May 5, 2005, Forced return to Vancouver angers girl, By Jane Armstrong. This was a very high profile incident and the agreement reached to treat the minor in the US (which Watchtower representatives were completely familiar with and supportive of) is essentially the same as found in the letter of understanding. Oh, and one more thing about that particular agreement, it was essentially the same thing Canadian medical providers were seeking but Watchtower at that time was unwilling to relent to in full public view. It was only a fluke that critical elements of this agreement were made public and that only as a casual remark from a medical facility staff member quoted in the article by Jane Armstrong.
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  77

  Blood Transfusion: Letter of Understanding

  by defender of truth in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  http://ajwrb.org/science/blood-transfusion-letter-of-understanding.

  "every parent among jehovahs witnesses worried about how local watchtower appointed elders will respond to letting their child have blood transfusion without opposing it should download this letter of understanding and be ready to hand a copy to them.

  then ask those elders to leave them (the parents) and doctors alone to concentrate on the childs best interests.".

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  Marvin Shilmer

  It has not been established on this thread that the posted "agreement" is genuine and used by JW, but assuming that it is: You seem to be implying that the WT is derivatively consenting BT if a JW executes such related document. They are not. You also seem to be implying (again as you have done in the past involving C Plasma,) that the WTS is covert by not advertizing to the extent of your satisfaction WTS documents that you have decided that should be, because you think 'that the WT knows that they are contradicting their otherwise formal position on blood,' and that is why it seems to you that the WT is being secretive.

  Fisherman,

  
  Whether the document at issue is authentic or fake is as easy as checking with the indicated source, which is not me. Within "this thread" is a link to my blog article that first brought this document to public attention. The source is cited if you care to check. I performed due diligence in obtaining a copy of this document directly from its source. I then shared it for public review. If this subject is important to you then you'll bother yourself to contact the same source. Everything you need to do this is referenced in my blog article. (See: Blood transfusion: Letter of Understanding ) If, on the other hand, you don't want to check with sources then there is little anyone can do to authenticate this document for you.

  
  Nonetheless, my blog article does offer alternate sources that either refer to the same document (i.e., letter of understanding for use in cases of JWs and blood issues) or to an agreement that is essentially the same thing. (See references 3 and 6 in Blood transfusion: Letter of Understanding) In each of these instances Watchtower or its representatives are involved as a facilitator in the process.

  
  When it comes to what this document (i.e., letter of understanding for use in cases of JWs and blood issues) represents in terms of contradicting Watchtower's formal position, my blog article is not silent and I see you avoid this. If you are interested in what has been actually said on this point I suggest you try reading. Look at my article's sub-section titled "What's changed". I didn't leave anything for implication. What I wanted to provide as a take-away for readers I bothered to put in writing. This change in Watchtower's formal position on blood for the circumstance at issue is as my blog article says. Oh, and to this day Watchtower has yet to make this change known to the rank-and-file JW community, though it bothered to make its policy of 1992 very clear. We can characterize this however we want but facts of the matter don't change. The letter of understanding document/agreement demonstrates a change in Watchtower's position and it's a change Watchtower has yet to publicize.

  
  
  

  I am sure that you are very well aware of this, but it seems to me, that you nonetheless with your sophistry publicly misrepresent the intentions of the WT in the above related matter, and you also publicly misrepresent the purpose of such document that you have posted, that you claim is used by JW.

  I've shared documented facts of this matter. Apparently that bothers you. So what?